Dentists Who Invest Podcast
Official Podcast of the Dentists Who Invest platform. Talking all things investing, money and finance with a dental spin. Have you ever wondered how you can grow your wealth and protect your hard earned money as a Dentist? We've got you covered. Featuring famous guests such as Andrew Craig, Edward Zuckerberg and Benyamin Ahmed we delve deep into EVERY aspect of finance to educate and empower ALL Dentists.
Dentists Who Invest Podcast
Moving To Dubai with Jeri Williams DWI-EP286
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Curious about the financial opportunities and lifestyle differences between the UK and Dubai for dentists? In our latest episode of the Dentists Who Invest podcast, we promise to provide you with a thorough understanding of relocating to Dubai, featuring insights from Jeri Williams of Smooth Accounting. Jeri, who has firsthand experience of living and working in Dubai, shares invaluable advice on setting up businesses and managing finances in this vibrant city. Learn about the dynamic business environment that Dubai offers and how it compares to the UK's landscape, especially for dentists considering such a move.
Moving to Dubai is not just about packing your bags; it involves understanding the visa landscape. We break down the entire process of obtaining a Dubai resident visa, clarifying the differences between tourist and employee visas. Through engaging personal stories, Jeri explains how setting up a business and self-employment can be strategic ways to secure residency. We also delve into the various visa types, including the coveted golden visa, and discuss the practical aspects of visa renewals and maintaining a business account in Dubai.
Corporate taxation can be a maze, but we simplify it for you by explaining the 9% tax on profits over 375,000 dirhams and the rules around salary payments. We tackle the complexities of transferring a UK-based company to the UAE, emphasizing the need for professional advice tailored to individual circumstances. This episode is packed with essential tips on management charges, transfer pricing agreements, and the additional costs of doing business in the UAE, with specific considerations for dentists. If you're contemplating a move to Dubai, this episode serves as your comprehensive guide to navigating the financial and practical elements involved.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional.
What's up team. Welcome back to the Dentists Who Invest podcast. We're gonna cover something that I have yet to cover on the podcast ever period full stop today, and that is how one can go about, should they wish, moving to Dubai and not just specifically Dubai. There's gonna be some crossover logic here for various countries, but we've honed it towards Dubai for today because I know that is a buzz place for a lot of dentists and certainly a lot of UK dentists I've come across. They aspire to at least spend some of their time out here or maybe transition entirely. So we're going to be covering the logistics of that from a financial perspective today, which is going to be super fun, and I have sat opposite me a lovely lady Jeri Williams who knows this stuff inside out. So looking forward to benefiting from Jeri's wisdom today. Jeri, how are you? Welcome to the Dentists Who Invest podcast.
Jeri:Thank you, thanks for having me on. I'm good, yeah, really good. Nice to see some sunshine, I know for a change and just to give everybody context.
Dr James:Jeri is on the south coast of England, where it's not always sunny, but today it is sunny. Jeri is not in Dubai right now as we speak, where it is pretty much contained, but you are.
Dr James:I am, I am, and that was not where I meant to go with that conversation to rub everybody's nose and it. Just so everybody knows. I'm just throwing that out there and letting everybody know, uh, but yet fortunately I am, and it's 41 degrees out here at the minute, but I'm a Brit abroad at present, so I'm absolutely loving it. I think it's great, but I've been here five days as of now, so maybe the heat will wear a little bit thin with time, but enjoying the honeymoon phase while it lasts, because Jeri, that's actually how we met, isn't it?
Dr James:Because you lived in Dubai for two years, isn't it? And then we crossed paths, paths. We can definitely cover that story in just a minute, but just before we do. I know that this is your first time on the podcast, gerry, so what it would be lovely is if we could have a little bit of an intro and a bio about yourself for the benefit of the listeners yeah, sure, so well, I'm an accountant by trade technically and I have an accountancy practice called smooth Accounting in the UK.
Jeri:I've had that for eight years and we're just a child accountancy firm, look after various different clients corporate clients and individuals and a couple of years ago I moved with my family to Dubai, set up Smooth Accounting in the UAE. So now we help business owners relocate to the UAE um, set up their companies, do their visas and everything, and then we do their accounts, tax that and everything else that they might need as well. Um, and I just recently moved back to the UK like a month ago, um, a couple of months ago, and that was just all part of the original plan, so we planned to go for a couple years. We did our couple of years and moved back. So now I'm back in the good old English countryside, which today is looking very nice not that it's that often that it happens, but I'm making the most of it lovely jovley, lovely jovley, and do you know what actually?
Dr James:do you know what just popped into my head just then? And I know that we're going to get into all the financial considerations in just a moment, but can we talk about the lifestyle of Dubai versus the UK first? Are you able to give us any thoughts on that, or what you noticed was different and what you liked about the place?
Jeri:sure. Yeah, I mean like Dubai, I think, is Marmite a little bit. People either love it or they hate it, but I love it and I can't understand why anyone wouldn't. It's just my favourite place. It is a city, so you've got to expect it to be like a city. It is the complete opposite of where I live in the UK, which is very remote and kind of in the middle of nowhere, so you've got to expect that you go to.
Jeri:Dubai is busy. You know there are lots of high rise hotels and buildings and apartments and you know it's exactly what a city should be. But it just. Dubai is just a place of opportunity. That's what I think about it. I feel like everybody there wants everyone to do well. Think about it. I feel like everybody there wants everyone to do well, you know, and everyone's so supportive and you know I had no intention of setting up a business in the UAE. I did not go there for that reason, um, but that's just what ended up happening through being there and you know that's the kind of place it is. I always say to people there's just so much for business owners. I feel like there's so much opportunity there and I love it you know what I have to.
Dr James:I'd actually like to comment on that as well. Do you know? I haven't been out here nearly as long as you, but the first time I came to Dubai actually I haven't said that that was in 2021, so it was like two years ago and um this year, 2024 I spent I think I've spent like three months here total, and you know what struck me about place versus the uk. So if you think about it, everybody a lot of people are out here because they've up sticks and they've came out here so they're a certain type of person.
Jeri:They can be entrepreneurial.
Dr James:So there's some sort of drive there, right? So the amount of people that you meet out here that have businesses or that have really interesting life stories because they've emigrated here, so they do have that industrious side to the character the majority of the time not always hideous generalizations, of course, and certainly it's not always the case. And that's not in any way diminishing people who are in the UK, just for the record. Just just throwing that out there, guys, it's certainly not the case don't be horrible about us, sorry there was me just being an asshole again you know someone's got to keep me in line
Dr James:uh, anyway. So, uh, but yeah, certainly, certainly. I don't want to diminish, uh, anybody of any other statehood and where they geographically are located right now, but I have to say generalization. I haven't noticed that a lot more in dubai and it opened my eyes. Man, like you, just meet people who are running businesses, you learn things from them. Yeah, that was, that was definitely a difference in culture that I noticed. So, anyway, just throwing that out there. So that's more from the lifestyle point of view. And you've got the weather, which is not the downside, of course. Uh, and I also noticed right here I have to comment, the food is actually quite good out here oh, the food is incredible yeah, the food is absolutely incredible.
Dr James:I really, I really miss the food yeah, big fan of the food out here and I'm someone who makes a lot of decisions based on that factor, and I'm sure there'll be people in the audience out there who feel the same so yeah, I did notice that and uh yeah, when you come here for the first time and you see the marina and you see the palm, and all of that stuff.
Dr James:As you say, it's divisive sometimes, not everybody likes that, not everybody likes that aesthetic, but you have to appreciate the, the grandiosity, grandiosity and the grandeur. But anyway, listen, that was a little bit of a comment on the lifestyle side of things. Do you know what might be nice? People love stories, people connect with stories, Jeri, and your story is the story of somebody who has emigrated to Dubai. So maybe if you could walk us through that from a financial perspective, you had the idea and you were like right, what do I need to shift? What do I need to do? Who do I need to speak to in order to make that happen?
Dr James:so we go back to you moved in 2022, so I'm going to say that maybe go back.
Jeri:Yeah, we're going to, we're going to time.
Dr James:Travel right, we're going to time travel travel to 2020. Maybe you started thinking about this, or was it.
Jeri:No, it was. It was quick, so 20. It was never on the cards for me and the reason it was never on the cards is just like family reasons and I won't go into that specifically, but I have reasons why it would never have been possible. But I've been coming to Dubai for like 20 years. My best friend used to live there when we were much, much younger, um and I used to go and stay with her. So because I only had to pay for flights and back then flights were mega cheap, so I would just be like I'm coming and get on a plane and go and stay with her. And then I was like, oh my god, this place is incredible. Um, so I loved it, I love Dubai. And then whiz forward kind of way, way forward.
Jeri:Um got engaged in Dubai. Um started taking the children there on holiday. So we're going forward quite a few years now, and then we were on holiday in June 2022. So, again, not ever considered that this might be possible. And we were on holiday there staying at the Atlantis, which is where we'd always stay with the kids because they love it so much.
Jeri:And I got sent an offer like the week before and I'm just an absolute sucker for an offer. Like you know, the marketing teams when they're designing their emails, they're going to blanket send out to everyone. Marketing teams when they're designing their emails, they're going to blanket send out to everyone. I am the person they're writing to when they're like huge deal, like money off come next week, and I'm literally like booking it just there on the laptop, like, yeah, we're going to Dubai next week. So we went there, say the Atlantis, and then when we were there, um, a couple of things happened in our, in our family situation and I said to my husband I was like we could, we could move here and he was like, like he always is in my mental ideas.
Jeri:I have like all the time he was like yeah, and I was like no, we actually could move. Well, that was it. By the time I was home, I was already like how do I do this? And I was probably in a position that a lot of people are in and I'm sure a lot of the listeners are in, that you think it's possible, but you don't quite understand logistically or administratively how that works. You know legally, how does it work, how do you physically because everyone knows you can go there you can just get on a plane and go, but how do you live there, move that kind of thing? So that was what I started looking into. So that was, yeah, june 2022. So by July I had my company set up, by August I had my visa and by September we were all gone boom, bang, bang bang.
Dr James:And then you were there bang, bang bang. Yeah, this is the thing, right, because you know how can we say this? There's that inertia, right, isn't there for lots of us, like, okay, well, we have to go and do these things and make them happen. But the second that you start exploring, yes, there's a little bit to do, but they can actually. You, I think you overestimate how long they actually take if you actually put your mind to it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and that's kind of some. Sometimes we delay it for a lot longer than it actually takes if we are quite serious about doing it.
Jeri:Yeah, okay, cool so you may you know what's funny, right just a small comment on relationships.
Dr James:There's always, there's always the one with the yang energy, the doer. There's always the more thoughtful one. Yeah, because if you have two yang doing people in a relationship, it don't work right. That's why don't people don't get together. Okay, so that was maybe a little bit of insight to the dynamic in your family.
Dr James:That's, that's completely fine, because every relationship's like that anyway not to digress, okay, so Jeri so you got the idea, you went about doing it, okay, and then you covered high level the process just then with the visa and what have you? How specifically did that look? And then let's get into what you learned through going through it as well, because that will help people a lot. But before we do that, how specifically did that look? If we would explore that in grander detail?
Jeri:so we're talking about business owners now. So because there are many different ways to become a resident of the UAE, so I think to make it easier. Like we're talking about business owners, so you are a business owner and you want to relocate. So for me I have a UK company. That is where I earn my income from, and plan was I don't need to be in the UK, doesn't matter where I am. My business pretty much runs without me, my UK company. So my time is very free, so I can kind of go anywhere. So Dubai is absolutely great, I can go there.
Jeri:So for me I needed to get a visa. Everybody has to have a visa. Like you can't just go to Dubai, so people don't always realise. But when you go on holiday you're going in on a tourist visa. That's being done for you at the airport. They are actually creating your visa as you're going through immigration.
Jeri:So a lot of people think they just go on holiday. There's no visa process. There is a process. You probably just don't see it or aware of it. So you get 30 days on a tourist visa. You get a little bit of leeway on that, but just for argument's sake you get 30 days.
Jeri:So you want to move to Dubai, right, so you need need to have a visa. You can't just have a 30-day tourist visa. So how are you going to get? That is the question, and there's different routes to getting it.
Jeri:So for me, being a business owner, the easiest way was to set up a business in the UAE and get my own visa through it.
Jeri:So a lot of people with their own businesses are either limited companies and they're a director and they're on like a director salary in the UK, or maybe, and certainly maybe for dentists, there might be partnerships instead or self-employed. But my point being that in the UAE, in Dubai, kind of a very easy way to get over there and get a visa is set your company up, employ yourself as an employee, and that's how you get your visa. So me doing a bit of research because, again, I was like, what do I do? How do I get there, like, and be allowed to stay like, not just be on a tourist visa? And I learned all of this stuff that I was like, oh, I didn't know that you could get all these different kinds of visas and all this kind of stuff. So, yeah, that was my learning process and that was how I deduced that getting my own company was going to be an easy way, and I mean also that I had full control over my visa because it was through my company.
Dr James:There we are, and I'm just going to put something in here just before we go any further. I'm going to put a timestamp in this podcast and the timestamp is what is today's date Today in this podcast, and the time stamp is what is today's date today is the 18th of july 2024, so it's important to remember that things can shift around and change.
Jeri:Oh for sure they can.
Dr James:They can shift around and and even when you did it, perhaps that even when you initially set up a company, what have you? Perhaps they have changed so they have. They have changed there we go, boom. So I'm just curious okay, do you know, like the specific, you set up the company and then you employ yourself, right, and then what is? What was? Do you recall the specific name of that visa that you get when you employ?
Jeri:yourself. Is there a name for that?
Dr James:because I know there's the golden visa, and then there's various ones, right yeah, so this is just an employee visa, just employee visa.
Jeri:Um, you can get a partner visa, investor visa, golden visa, green visa. There's so many different kinds of visas you can get and it's actually quite confusing. I think GoldenVisas are either five or 10 years. We don't help people with those. That's kind of separate to what we do. But I'm in the process of getting my own GoldenVisa at the moment, just so that I get 10 years and I don't have to keep renewing it every two years, which is what you have to do with an employee one. Um, I'm just doing it for that reason, just to make life easier. But yeah, there's loads of different kind of visas you can get, um, but if you're not in a position to get a golden visa because you haven't met the requirements of that um, then an employee visa is quite a good, a good way to go.
Dr James:I see. And what about cash flow in that company? Does it need to be a certain balance?
Jeri:no, no, certain balance or even if I find some of the banks require it. I didn't require it of my bank, um, and it was quite straightforward. I think depends who you want to bank with. Obviously I can't really say because I don't know, but no, in terms of forming the company, no, you don't need to cash flow it so really those all the steps that you mentioned, is pretty much all there is to it.
Dr James:You set up. Obviously you know there's going to be a little bit of logistics there just for the listeners not quite this straightforward, but certainly high level. Set the business up, get the visa yeah.
Jeri:So yes, as a very basic way of looking at it. Yes, there are some other steps, like your emirates id. It's very closely linked to your visa, um, which is kind of like your id card, but people get them confused. So your visa is your residency, you're being allowed to stay in the country. Um, your emirates id is an id card and you need it for everything, like everything getting a phone contract, getting a bank account, getting a renting somewhere, like all this stuff, driving everything. You need your Emirates ID. So, but they are linked. So the normal process is set the company up and I'm talking more about free zone companies now, not mainland companies, which I'll come on to in a minute, because there is a difference but for a free zone company perspective, normally what would happen is form the company part. One of your visa gets issued. After that, you enter the country, your visa gets finalized, then you get your Emirates ID. So it normally happens in that process and then, once you have that, you're done and you know what I actually think.
Dr James:this is now a good time to talk about the mainland one, and then we can circle back to the other stuff, because we've kind of put it on a plate, so maybe we cover that and then I can come back to the other things.
Jeri:Yeah, so we don't help people form mainland companies, but that is an option for people. So mainland the difference between mainland and free zone is that mainland don't have any trading restrictions, so you can trade with and anywhere with, anyone in the UAE or the rest of the world. Free zones are like. The easiest way to explain free zones is if you were to look at a map of Dubai, you'd see loads of little tiny areas like loads of of little circles and they're all their own free zone. So it's a geographical area. So places like the marina and downtown, they are not free zones, they are mainland. Dubai free zones have their own little area and they are like their own little government. So they have all their own rules and regulations that you have to adhere to by being a free zone company, but you are restricted. You can only trade with other free zones or the rest of the world. You can't trade with the mainland of Dubai.
Dr James:Fascinating. And again, just to just to be hyper clear on that, each specific free zone has differences in regulation. Yes, so goodness.
Jeri:So there must be like hundreds of these then right, yeah, I think there is a hundred or over a hundred, I'm not sure exactly how many, but like, for example, because we're on the dentist to invest podcast, I would assume that dentists would need to go either mainland or to like dubai healthcare city. I think it's called um as a free zone and that's how they would be allowed to trade um, so they could go free zone, but it would have to be the Dubai Healthcare one.
Dr James:I did not know that. Absolutely fascinating. There we go, Okay, cool, brilliant. Well, you know what would be nice actually we've covered kind of high level how the transition looks. What are the perks from a tax perspective to move into UAE? Because everybody's kind of vaguely aware, yes, the tax situation is favourable out here, but they don't quite know how that breaks down, is what I've noticed. So if you were able to cover that, that would be gold dust for the listeners.
Jeri:And I'm definitely not as great at this tax stuff as I used to be, but I will absolutely do my best.
Dr James:And you just said something very important, because it did actually change some somewhat recently, didn't it? And it may shift, you know, but snapshot, snapshot today.
Jeri:Yeah, my team, my team, are the tax experts. I am definitely not. I can, I can talk about it like a general approach, but but basically Dubai is a low tax jurisdiction, so there's zero personal tax and there is only nine percent corporate tax in the UAE. So that came in a year ago. You're absolutely right. So prior to a year ago we had zero corporate tax. We now have nine percent. So but compared to the UK, I mean, that's like hardly anything right, yeah, yeah so yeah, I mean the uk is really, really high.
Jeri:Um, so, providing you are relocating as a person and going to become non-resident of tax in the uk and setting up a business as well in the uae, then you will benefit from zero percent tax in the uae and nine percent corporate tax. So it's. I mean, the savings are absolutely astronomical, like they're huge understood.
Dr James:And then just to be really clear to the dentists who are listening when we talk about personal tax, we're of course talking about income and dividends tax right uh, income and dividend tax?
Jeri:yes, if you are, if you have your own company. But if you're self-employed, just income tax and national insurance. So it just depends if you're self-employed versus a limited company. If you're a limited company, you'll be paying income tax and on salary and dividends that's what you'll be paying. If you're self-employed, you'll be paying income tax and national insurance on all of your profits. So it just depends. But either way, those will get wiped out if you move to the UAE.
Dr James:There you go, because this the thing, do you know if a whole corp tax thing right, so it's obviously it's nine percent on your profits, of course that's how corp tax works. And then correct me if I'm wrong, but that's only on profits over 85k in one tax year, right?
Jeri:Yeah, 375,000 dirhams is the profit.
Dr James:There, you go yeah, and then dirhams, I believe concurrent conversion it's like 4.25. So that's probably where I got the 85k yeah, I think it's more like 4.
Jeri:Well, 4.7 or something at the moment. I think it's quite high. Maybe I'm wrong. I mean it changes all the time, right?
Dr James:so I don't know I need to do yr that one. I've been using my card every day, and so I should read up on that one uh, anyway, what was it gonna say? Okay, cool, but then. But then here's the thing about corp, right? Obviously, corp tax happens after your income, right after your wages, all right, so you've got the company. Just you know you could potentially pay yourself a wage of like a million and there's no profits in the company, right?
Jeri:unless I'm missing something yeah, no, you can't do that.
Dr James:Oh so it has to be like a justifiable wage, then yeah.
Jeri:Don't be anyone's accountant, James. No so yeah, so they've, they've, they've put in transfer what's called transfer pricing legislation to stop people wiping out their profits with salary. So you can only pay a commercial rate of salary. And people always go. What's commercial rate, like? Especially when people do random stuff that isn't like run-of-the-mill. I mean, I think dentists would be easier because, like, if you were to just go and employ a dentist in the UAE, what would you have to pay them? And that's the rate of salary you can pay yourself.
Dr James:I see, and obviously for dentists, because their earn potential is pretty high. Well, what that would mean is that it's justifiable. Our potential is pretty high. Well what?
Jeri:that would mean is that it's justifiable? Yeah, it's a bit, but it has to be a commercial rate of salary. So you couldn't, for example, you're, you couldn't um it couldn't be crazy, but it would be more yeah, it could be crazy.
Jeri:You know, like say, if you say you're making a million pounds a year in profit, you know you can't pay yourself like 900 000 pounds. If you would have, if you would be able to employ a dentist on 150 000 or something like you can't, you know you've got a, it would have to be 150 000 so you still get taxed on the 850 000 that was left I see I see, okay, yep, fair enough makes sense.
Dr James:Here's one that people always ask me and I want to ask you, because obviously this is your forte people come to me and they're like can I just transfer my UK company to the UAE?
Jeri:so yes and no and it depends and I have to caveat this and everything I'm saying basically because it depends on your personal circumstances. So you need to absolutely get professional advice from an accountant, tax advisor who knows about this stuff like us, because everyone's situation is different. You can't just effectively dispose of a business, so you can't just cease a business in the UK but start it up again in the UAE like the exact same clients, the exact same work, which you wouldn't really be able to do as a dentist anyway, because your customers are not going to up and all move to Dubai, are they? So you? You would, I assume what you're saying is run it through a Dubai entity but stay in the UK, is that? Is that what you mean? Um?
Dr James:I mean what I was specifically, what you, the situation you just described with dentists no, it doesn't really work it doesn't really make sense, right. But let's say, somebody has like a online side hustle people have. You know, I'm not saying I when I ask that question uh well, the reason why I know that that's not something that's suggestible is that you basically, if you did collapse the company and then restart it, that's a lot of money you have to move around across borders.
Jeri:At least, that's what.
Dr James:I heard right, but I was hoping when I asked that question.
Jeri:Yeah, with the dentist.
Dr James:you are right it doesn't make sense from the patient's perspective, just start the new company, obviously.
Jeri:Yeah, maybe it's more for people who are businesses outside of that really yeah, yeah, maybe maybe it's more for people who are who have businesses outside of that. Really, yeah, sure, so you can't, like mid-contract, move customers across, because you're effectively disposing a business and there'll be a tax charge on that. So what's really really important again, this is why I say to get advice, because it really depends on your specific business, how it is set up, how you're billing people, what contracts you have with customers, what type of work you're doing and how best to transfer that business to the UAE. You know you need to effectively bring that business to a close properly, as it would naturally. You know those contracts or whatever work you're doing would naturally finish and then start again on brand new customer contracts with new customers in the UAE. So you just can't, you know, say, for example, let's just, let's just put this into real life, because I think it's easier.
Jeri:Say, like, like my clients, okay, so we have accounting clients in the UK, um, and they pay a monthly fee for their accounts, right? So I couldn't just, six months into their accounting year, say I get up and move in June and I've got a ton of clients that just pay me monthly. Just go, I'm just going to bill you now from the UAE company so that all that money goes through the UAE company. I can't do that because they're existing clients under existing contracts and I didn't do that when I moved away. So that's an example of how you can't do it. But if you had clients where you were doing maybe project work for and those contracts will come to an end, then you move to the UAE and you start new projects and you issue new contracts. That would be fine. Does that make sense?
Dr James:that's legit, so to speak. Yeah, as as the the internet memes would say, that is legit yeah, okay, cool, let's go listen.
Dr James:It's good to, it's good to clear up that one, uh, another situation that I've come across and I don't know how, uh.
Dr James:First of all, first off, I don't know how uh legal this is or if it works in every scenario, but I know that some people do it and it is fine per se for them and their business setup.
Dr James:So I'm going to run it by you, right. What I've heard of before is where people will have their company in their UK and that company will have, like, an Instagram or a some sort of social media following, right. So, as it happens, the person who owns the company in the UK is like the protagonist or some sort of social media following, right? So, as it happens, the person who owns the company in the UK is like the protagonist, so to speak, of that social media following right, they're the ones doing the content right, so, effectively, they are the person who's running that company social media. So what I've heard of people doing before is setting up their company in the UAE and that'll be like Dr X Marketing Services, and then they basically build the company in the UK for the work they were previously doing for free and they move money across borders via that method. So I'm just wondering number one, if that's something that you've heard of. And also, number two, are there situations where that is deemed legal?
Jeri:Yeah, it's a great question and, to be honest, it's one we get every day.
Jeri:So it's not necessarily just a social media bit, but people basically saying recharging their time or their work, recharging what they're doing from the UAE to the UK company to get that money across.
Jeri:So this comes up all the time and what we're talking about is management charges and it is possible.
Jeri:Okay, it's not something that I like because it's a very great area and, depending on how much money you're talking about, you potentially need what's called a transfer pricing agreement and there are specialists out there that will do that for you, that will agree between your two companies the amount of money that's going to be charged across and why and for what services and how.
Jeri:That is legitimate and at market rate and they can be quite expensive transfer pricing agreements. But without it, you are running the risk that HMRC will question how you have arrived at that amount of money. So it's not something that I like or do and I don't like clients doing it, but there are situations where it is possible and it is genuine. So I think the most important thing is kind of looking again at a commercial rate of pay, a commercial rate of pay for what's being done and that showing the evidence of the work being done, how it is at market value, and then that being recharged and that being okay understood and am I right in saying that, from a liability perspective, the uae is similar to the uk in that, regardless of what your accountant says or does, the buck ends with the business owner.
Dr James:Oh for sure, yeah, okay, worth considering. I'm glad that we just uh reiterated that today on the dentistry invest podcast because that is very true. You know, you can get an account to sign and you can get an account to sign off anything right. You literally can right, but actually the buck ends with you like do you know what I mean? It's actually not their neck is on the line, it's actually yourself. So you want to get something to actually lose your, so to speak, and can keep you, keep you safe yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Dr James:Love that. Thank you so much. Okay, cool, Well, listen. I really enjoyed that today because what we did was we actually touched base on pretty much everything that I pretty much believe is pertinent whenever it comes to this.
Jeri:And you know what I'm actually going to throw that back to you, gerry.
Dr James:Is there anything else that you feel is relevant today, or is that a good synopsis, right there is relevant today or is that a good synopsis right there?
Jeri:those are all the questions I have in my mind. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, things like you need to have health insurance and if you're employing anybody in the UAE, you have to provide them with health insurance. So that's an additional cost, and obviously that can cost anything like depends what you go for, which package you go for. But you know, just knowing that that is an additional cost, saying Dubai is quite expensive to live, um, you know, like London, like any city, it is expensive. So, yes, the tax savings are great, but you have to go into it with your eyes wide open and knowing that it isn't going to be cheap to live there, especially if you want to live the kind of life like what we did when we were there. You know we did everything we wanted to do and we knew that it would cost, but it was fine because that's what we wanted, I think, as long as you know that rent is quite expensive the Instagram life.
Jeri:The Instagram Instagram life yeah, the bling life, exactly, um, but you get to live in Dubai, so it's not. You can't compare, it's not comparative. You know people say is it comparative to living in London? I'm like I just you can't, you cannot compare the two places. Like Dubai is, you know, incredible. It's safe, it's clean, it's always hot. The cuisine is unreal, like I'm writing a book actually about how to move to Dubai for business owners. I've been writing it for like 18 months did not know that.
Dr James:Wow you got a word on that. You want to shout it out today, or is that a secret?
Jeri:um, I, I've still got like 80 chapters left to write. It's the worst and best thing I ever decided to do, but I'm committed now, so I'm gonna. I don't have a release date, but I am committed and I'm gonna get it finished. Um, so, yeah, if anyone wants to follow me on LinkedIn, you will. Um, you will get notified about that, but I'm putting everything that I possibly can think of about moving to Dubai for business owners into this book. So, um, that will have everything, everything in it that I possibly can think of about moving to Dubai for business owners into this book.
Dr James:So that will have everything, everything in it that I can't remember right now on this podcast. Well, do you know what? It was a beautiful synopsis actually today, and I know that you and I talked about this off camera too Obviously, this dentist, this podcast serves dentists. So I'm wondering there was a few things that we covered before this podcast that we said that were worth mentioning. Is there anything we can specifically say to dentists to be conscious of whenever they're moving their businesses out here?
Jeri:yeah, I mean yeah, like we mentioned, I think, just the fact that it's a regulated. It's a regulated activity, just like there are lots of regulated activities, you know, financial advisors, law firms. You know it's not just a case of setting up your company. You're gonna face other regulations and licenses and things that you need to get from the Dubai Health Authority or whatever the specific dentist one is. So it's just that side of it being industry specific is something that you really need to look into.
Jeri:In the same way, you're going to be hugely regulated in the UK. You're going to have that the same, but the UAE version. So, just being aware of all those things, you're going to have that the same, but the UAE version. So, just being aware of all those things, you're going to have additional burdens, not like someone who's a consultant and just moving out there, like who just does marketing, or like me doing accounts, like there's no regulation for us. So it's very easy. I think it's going to be an extra hurdle to get over, not impossible, obviously, and absolutely worth it, but just being aware of that yeah, do you know what?
Dr James:and that's probably that knowledge or that forte. I'm sure there's people out there who do that specifically for dentists, because there's going to be listen. I like everybody this is. This podcast is mainly for uk dentists and everybody knows what clinic uh nicer like uh national institute of clinical excellence and then also the gdc general dental council and there's so many things that you have to cqc as well I think cqc is part of.
Dr James:Uh nice actually, to be honest but anyway so there's so many hoops that people have to jump through on that front in the uk and uh, yeah, so dubai is obviously going to be similar, as any one would expect and hope for in a in a nation. Uh, of course, because obviously what that means is it protects standards, which is a great thing, and you know what? Maybe that's a follow-up podcast right there. Maybe I can find some stuff at some stage, but listen anyway, Jeri, thank you so much for your time, expertise and wisdom today. Thanks for having me, oh, listen, my absolute pleasure, and I'm gonna do it again, aren't we?
Jeri:we're? We're going to do one in Dubai. Hell yeah, hell yeah, and with a better backdrop to these.
Dr James:To this whiteboard that I have right there Is there a better backdrop to my whiteboard?
Jeri:Jeri, I don't think there is. I honestly don't think there is. The jury's out, the jury's out.
Dr James:Anyway, but, Jeri, is this if anybody wants to reach out to you, uh, off the back of this podcast today, how are they best off finding you?
Jeri:easiest way is probably drop me an email, help at smoothaccounting. co. uk, um. I am always contactable on that um. But obviously, linkedin follow me, Jeri Williams, follow me on linkedin. I'm. I'm on there every day, so if you want to reach out and kind of follow what I'm up to, then, yeah, you can check me out on there sweet.
Dr James:Well, listen you, and I should definitely get that follow-up podcast in the diary at some stage, but until, we do. Jeri. Hope you have an absolutely smashing Thursday and we'll speak again very soon. You too, see you later.
