Should I Give My PM Equity? with Lisa Bainham [CPD Available]

Check if your dental practice qualifies for capital allowances here >>> https://www.dentistswhoinvest.com/chris-lonergan

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UK Dentists: Collect your verifiable CPD for this episode here >>> https://courses.dentistswhoinvest.com/smart-money-members-club

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What if the fastest way to grow a dental practice is not a new scanner, but a new agreement? We sit down with Lisa, a former dental nurse who became a practice stakeholder, to unpack how equity, trust, and smart systems turn a busy clinic into a resilient, two-site business that serves patients better and performs stronger.

Lisa shares the early lessons she took from running operations in a GP super centre: finance visibility, team training, and the simple truth that people remember how you make them feel. Those foundations shaped a strategy that moved a three-person team into a private-led model with an NHS arm ring-fenced in a nearby site for stability and optionality. We talk openly about when equity for a practice manager makes sense, why it should be a cherry not a carrot, and how small ownership stakes can unlock the discretionary effort owners quietly hope for but rarely earn.

We dive deep on incentives that work—like sharing a slice of verified stock savings—and why owners who cling to cash starve growth. The numbers matter: monthly KPIs, white space costs, staffing ratios, and fee calibration can add six figures without longer clinical hours. And then there’s the biggest lever of all: communication. Lisa breaks down the ten-second phrases that de-escalate complaints, the reception scripts that convert more enquiries into appropriate appointments, and how AI call reviews help front-of-house master tone, empathy, and listening.

If you’re an owner or manager who wants fuller diaries, fewer fire drills, and a team that thinks like partners, this conversation hands you the blueprint: align incentives, measure what matters, and coach the words that win trust. Subscribe, share this with your practice lead, and leave a review telling us one change you’ll make this week.

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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Scene And CPD Offer
• 3:33 Lisa’s Unusual Path Into Management
• 8:08 Building A Dental Practice From Three To Two Sites
• 13:13 Equity For Practice Managers: Why It Works
• 18:33 Incentives That Grow The Pie
• 23:23 Owner–Manager Trust And Shared Goals
• 27:23 Private Versus NHS And Site Strategy
• 31:53 When To Offer Equity And How
• 36:23 What Makes A Great Practice Manager

Transcript

Dr James: 0:53

What's up everybody? Interesting podcast episode today, because I'm here today, joined by a lovely lady called Lisa Bainham. And Lisa's had a little bit of an unusual story to practice ownership and various other, how can we say this, pits of spin as well, side hustle, side business, side businesses, and I just don't know how someone is able to fit it all in. If we're totally honest, S o this is a story of inspiration, this is a story of interest to dentists who are listening to this podcast because it shows us just what's possible and just what we truly can get out of every week if we if we are leveraged enough and if we organise things in sort of things in the correct way. As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode within the official Dentists Who Invest Smart Money Members Club. Smart Money Members Club also includes multiple mini courses and webinar series on finance for dentists, including how to become as tax efficient as possible, as well as understanding investing. All of this content comments as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificates there and then upon completion of each lesson. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your dental indemnity and a 5% discount on lab bills for dental principals, amongst other perks and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Lisa, how are you today?

Speaker 1: 2:17

I'm really good, thank you. Yeah, definitely. Lots of plates spinning away every day.

Dr James: 2:24

Being a juggle, those plates are spinning, that's for sure. But yeah, Lisa, you were just telling me off camera a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your life, and maybe that's a good place. I said to you, you know what, time out, let's stop right there, let's get this all in the recording. So maybe that's a good place to pick up and get things going.

Speaker 1: 2:40

Yeah, so I I mean, you know, this is I I don't it's my life, I suppose I don't find it that interesting, maybe, but I suppose it is kind of a pretty unusual route that I took, but I'm really glad that I did. Um, so yeah, um obviously we've spoken a few times, um, and I've just said, you know, we I started off as a dental nurse, um, did that for three years, um, couldn't do it anymore, found it absolutely gross. So fast. Um, so I decided to go into I wanted to get into dental, but I really wanted to not be in the clinical aspect. Um, so I actually took a job temporarily in a GP surgery um while I was looking for another dental job. Um, it was around the house, around the corner from my house. So I was kind of it's maternity cover, that's it's all good, fits in fine. Um and this was back in kind of like '95, when most of the GP surgeries that they had a complete upheaval, and they actually basically sacked what were the traditional practice managers and actually brought in bank managers to run their practices as businesses. So I was blessed with the best boss who was also uh looking back now with age and being a bit wiser, he was probably the laziest sod in the world. And basically, what that meant is he taught me how to do his job, um, which give me a massive insight into healthcare and the financial aspects of that, but also of how to run a business and how to train the team and how those are your biggest assets. So when we were in the GP practice, we actually um moved into this huge had this new medical centre built. And the idea was obviously we were moving over to this super centre, and you know, there was probably 10, 15 part-time people, receptionists who come in, did two or three hours a day. Um it was literally, I look back now, and it was like, you know, at three o'clock the shutters come down in the GP surgery and everyone had a sherry. You know, it was like it was like that. And it was it didn't seem wrong at the time, but I look back now and think, hmm. But anyway, we moved out to the medical centre. I was put in charge of the integration. Now trying to change um reception skills, um, when I think everyone's can be a little bit uh guarding of uh doctors receptionists quite often. Um so for me, I wanted to change that. So that kind of brought in me, brought out of me something that I really felt was important, and that was how we make people feel. So combined with the health and the finance and the patient experience, that was something that was really, I didn't know that setting me up for what I was potentially meant to do. So yeah, I ended up staying there a lot longer than the maternity cover, um, really enjoyed it, really valuable experience. And then we were renting out the old building, which is a old doctor's surgery Victorian, beautiful place. Um, and my lazy boss was very brave at the time and said, you know what, there's a dentist that's gonna uh rent it. Why don't you have a chat and see how you can help him? I was like, oh god, right, okay, but I thought, yeah, good opportunity. So I came to this practice, and there was three of us. I agreed to we'd got no the pay was rubbish, um, but I saw an opportunity to grow and be part of something exciting, and yeah, we went from three of us to what we are now two sites, 46, referral centre. The most amazing practice I could wish for. So yeah, it's it's been usual. Obviously, I've done things along the way, in you know, leadership, business, I've done lots of financial courses, which I've really enjoyed. Um, but yeah, it's been it's been a really, you know, a real privilege to have that journey and get where I am today.

Dr James: 7:08

Wow, I I I I can I can imagine. And the practices, you're a partner in the practice, is that correct?

Speaker 1: 7:14

I'm a stake, yeah, stakeholder in the practice, um, which is quite unusual. I think I've only ever heard of two or three practice managers that have had that that opportunity. Um and I think it's it's it's uh it's very underutilized. I mean, most of us that deserve it would treat the practice like it's our own anyway. But to have that recognised, I think is something that more practices should be doing, definitely.

Dr James: 7:44

You know, it's it's so just to be clear, stakeholder, as in, we have you have equity in the businesses, right? Yes, amazing. And you know what? You are I've come across two people that I've spoken to that have that structure, and both of them swear by it. And I I remember someone posting on the Facebook group, the Dennis Who Invest Facebook group. Shout out the the Facebook group for Dennis Who Invest. Of course, feel free to join that if you're not a member. Uh just search Dennis Who Invest should appear on Facebook. Uh yeah, anyway, where were we? So, yeah, when it comes to let me see, the structuring things in that way. I remember someone posted on the group recently, and they were like, Should I do this? Should I not do this? Is it a good idea to give my practice manager a little stake in the business? And I remember some of the comments were like, ha ha, you must be joking and stuff like that. And I'm like, guys, this is a thing. Like, this is actually a thing. You know what I mean? People do this to motivate their staff because really, beyond a certain point, if you're gonna ask someone to put effort in outside the nine to five, they have to have uh an interest somewhere. Like they're not gonna be motivated to do that at to the same level unless they have a little bit of the back end, a little bit of the a little bit of equity, you know what I mean? And I actually don't think that's unreasonable. I think people get caught up way too much in how you divide up the pie, whereas you should be looking at how big the pie is, right? And if you can give away five percent to make the pie 50% bigger, well, the math makes sense for everybody. It's just wearing up the numbers, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 9:07

Mass massively, and I think you know, the practices uh, you know, around COVID time, I'd already been doing quite a lot of work with Practice Managers Association, but then around COVID, I started getting a bit more involved in other practices businesses. Um and I was really shocked that that wasn't kind of the norm. Um and so for me, when I started my consultancy, for me it's about improving the practice, but making sure that that pie is, you know, worthwhile to everybody in the team. Everyone benefits, patients benefit, um, the team benefit. You know, even from we shouldn't, it's I think some dentists see it as we shouldn't have to dangle a carrot to make people work. And it's very short-sighted, you know. For me, uh generally, it's the same as sick pay. We've always we pay sick pay. We've never had an issue with uh people being off sick. Obviously they are, but we've never had a problem with it. Um because for for us it's absorbable and uh it's about looking after your people. So getting that pie humongous is uh really achievable by not uh doing a carrot thing, but by uh giving everybody a reward and making them feel part of the business, not just working for the business, which like you say, what what's the incentive there, what's the motivation? Um, so yeah, you know, anything from uh, you know, uh setting somebody, whoever does the stock, setting goals, you know, we we did it a while ago where we worked out that you know our average spend was 12 grand a month on basic materials, not implants and things that we couldn't do without, but the basic stock. And uh we agreed that any savings less than 12 grand, the uh this person would get 10%. Well, you know, now every three months they get a thousand pound-ish bonus, and but they've saved us seven or eight grand. You know, it's like I want that pie. That pie is brilliant, it's lovely. Um, and it's the same with anything within the practice, any of those systems, you know, reward your team because a little reward goes a long way. Well, you know, that's my opinion anyway, and help them to help you grow is is my motto.

Dr James: 11:41

I think that's one thing that humans can sometimes be remarkably not so good at is recognizing that money, money is a little bit like it's a little bit like a river, you have to keep it flowing for it to come back to you. Whereas if you're more scarce with it and you cling on to it too much, you somehow have less as well because you are less willing to incentivize those around you when ultimately that may in fact benefit you as well. It's a skill in an art, right? And it's about getting the sweet spot. And I think we could be better, the human race could be better at that in general. Uh basically, it's something that uh we need to work on. But I guess part of that is obviously learning that these things are actually effective and what have you. And then how did that work, Lisa? Was it when you s when you guys set up the practice? Were you given a stake straight away? Or did you guys set it up together, or did someone give you that later?

Speaker 1: 12:30

Yeah, a little bit later. Um, you know, you've got to prove yourself, you know, it's not you've got to prove yourself. And I was doing, you know, I I obviously became an integral part of the business. We were growing really rapidly, and you know, I've always had the attitude of, you know, you do what needs to get done. I don't believe that practice management is a nine to five clock on clock off, and I think owners need to appreciate that goodwill and they will get it back tenfold. Um, a practice manager that clocks on, clocks off, writes down every little hour or every little, you know, 10 minutes that they do was overtime. That's not the relationship that is going to be working to the best effect. Um, I've actually just this week put together a couple of uh things for a couple of dental conferences next year, and it's very much focused on the relationship of the management team. Um obviously, just off camera before we were talking about being a matchmaker when I'm finding practices, a new practice manager, and it's like a weird dental dating agency. Um, but I do believe that uh if the relationship is absolutely on point between an owner and a practice manager, um and they've got uh shared goals, they've got uh expectations, they've got the non-negotiables, you know, we can't all be positive, you know, what's important to them. I believe that that relationship will very quickly be amazing and we can cope with anything that the practice, the team, patients chuck at us. So you do have to earn your stripes, you do have to become that person that almost the practice can't run without. You know, I'm not saying we are control, well, sometimes we're control freaks, but it's about the shared goals that owners trust, the owners respect, but vice versa as well. You know, it's it's uh it's a the more practices I visit, the more I see so many variations of these relationships. But there is the common goal is honesty, trust, shared goals, and respect, um and goodwill both ways is uh the recipe that I say makes the the strongest practices.

Dr James: 14:55

Nice. And the practices that you have a stake in, because there's two, right?

Speaker 1: 14:59

Sorry, say that again.

Dr James: 15:01

You said you've got a stake in two practices, correct?

Speaker 1: 15:03

No, no, no, it's one business, two sites.

Dr James: 15:06

Ah, sorry, yes, yes, yes, yes. Uh and those those sites, they're associate-led?

Speaker 1: 15:11

No. Uh we have the main practice which we opened, which was the old doctor surgery. Um, we opened that in '98, went private in 2003, um, and then built that up, took over the whole of the building. It's a massive building. Um, and we had an NHS contract still to do a little bit, and we negotiated a very good um UDA rate. Um and it worked. We've also got MOS and we've also got children's RA as well. Um and it was it's very favorable, but we, you know, we're not green enough to know that you know it's always going to be favorable, but we wanted to be in control of our business. So I'm a big believer in having private, and I do believe that you can have NHS as well for the security that some people want, and it be a massive success. What we don't want is NHS being in control of our whole business. So we expanded private to the point where we'd done extensions everywhere, and it's like a rabbit warrior, honestly. Um, but we were still expanding, which was a great problem to have. So it was really weird. So on a Monday morning we had a breakfast meeting, uh management meeting, and by Tuesday afternoon I'd gone out and found a site within about five minutes of where we can open the squat and move the NHS over to this rented building, which meant we can then expand the private more. And then if we decide the NHS isn't favourable, then we basically shut that down, chop it off. Um, and it's been fine, it's still favourable up to now. Let's see what happens next year. Um and it's about making sure you're in control of the business and um being over. I I go over both sites, but um I don't do as much hands-on as I um I used to now because my consultancy's sort of taken over a little bit. Um, but I like to be here at least two or three days.

Dr James: 17:23

How often in your consultancy business do you advise your clients to give a little bit of a share to their PMs?

Speaker 1: 17:29

I've broached it quite a few times um and get different reactions. So quite often I'm brought in as a practice manager mentor, so sometimes we're not quite at that point where that discussion is is timely enough. So yeah, I normally work with practices and practice owners come and go, I want this person, I want that person, and I want them to be this and to be that. And you know, most of the time it's perfectly reasonable, but it's about communication and getting them communicating. They don't they shouldn't need me to get where they want to be, but they quite often do. But I suppose I can come from a point of experience, so it kind of a bit of a shortcut to getting where they want to be.

Dr James: 18:16

That's the thing about business coaching. Um, sometimes when you're when you're coaching someone, you just think to yourself, is that not obvious? Is that not what everyone would do to fix that exact situation that you're talking about? But then you have to remember it probably took you like three, four years to figure that one thing out, you know, and it's it's weird because when you kind of know the answers, like you know, everybody can be a coach in everyone's else else's life in some capacity, right? On a different subject, right? And when you know the answers in certain areas, you're just like it's so it's almost obvious, right? And these are smart, capable people a lot of the time. Um that always blew my mind a little bit, you know, not that I know everything, but I've kind of I've kind of been in both situations of being coached and I've also had clients uh with this sorts of things on the on the financial stuff. And um, how can I say, yeah, it's it's interesting. I've always I've always I've always found that interesting. But like I say, the reason it seems so obvious, you have to remember it, is because you tried 99 ways, it didn't work and found the one way that did work. So it's more it's more the context more than anything else on what works and what doesn't, right? It's having context as to all the things not to do. It's more about it's as much about that as anything else. And I'm interested to know. So we're gonna say something.

Speaker 1: 19:28

No, I just I said absolutely, I completely agree with that.

Dr James: 19:31

It's a crazy one, it's a wild one, right? But then having said that, sometimes you do have a very obvious answer, and then someone will implement it, and it mightn't work for them because of their situation or because of who they are. So you have to remember that's the weird thing that kind of messes with your head a little bit in this world. Everything that works doesn't necessarily work for everything that works for you doesn't necessarily work for everything everybody else, right? Because your method of doing it makes it work for you in a way, right? Too many variables. We're getting abstract now, but it's it's an interesting one, isn't it? I always find that quite amusing, basically. Um, but yes, anyway, so tell me this which sort, which types of which have you got like a little bit of a kind of criteria set for practices that you would advise, or not advise, but you might raise the subject of uh giving a little bit of equity to their PM. Like, how would those practices look? Ones that should think about it, and how would a practice that should really not think about it or is not ready for it look? How would they look as well? UK dentists, Dennist Who Invests now has an official platform where you can learn about finance and obtain UK compliant, verifiable CVD at the same time. The only platform that exists on which you can do both. The Smart Money Members Club has hundreds of hours of mini courses, webinar series, and live day recordings on all things finance tax efficiency for UK dentists. This includes complete courses on how. How tax works for you, Kai Dennis. Finance, so that you can invest and grow your own money, business so you can improve your profitability as an associate or principal. And for those out there that want it, there's also a mini course and how you can responsibly enter the crypto space using measured amounts of capital. I've gathered this content from the best of the best I could find in each respective area so that you know that this is how people at the forefront of each field advise their clients. The Smart Money Members Club also contains discounts on common things that UK dentists need to pay for on a regular basis. This includes a whopping 10% discount on dental indemnity, the offer to beat your income protection deal no matter what you're paying, and for the principals out there, 5% discount on lab bills and 10% discount on practice insurance. These are designed to offer hundreds, if not thousands, in annual savings. The purpose of this members club is to not only boost your monthly income but also manage your outgoings as much as possible and therefore create more profit. To celebrate the launch of the Smart Money Members Club, and given that the CPD deadline is coming up soon, I've decided to offer the first month of this platform entirely for free. This offer will end in the coming weeks as soon as the current CPD cycle is up. To collect your CPD for this podcast episode using the Smart Money Members Club, feel free to use the link in the description of this podcast.

Speaker 1: 22:19

I think it needs to be rewarded to a practice manager who is already doing what that practice needs. I or I every practice manager that I um work with, I encourage key performance indicators and I encourage them to do monthly reports to demonstrate growth or not. Some months are a bit shit. Um but understand if they're shit, you've got to just understand why it was shit and have a plan to improve. You know, we're allowed to be a bit shit sometimes. Um and I would say it's it's not the carrot, like I said before. It shouldn't be, oh, they're okay, but I want them to be brilliant, so I'm gonna dangle this carrot. I think the relationship has got to be already there, and this is the cherry, not the carrot, you know, um, to have that conversation with it. And you know, a lot of the time, you know, I would say speak to your accountant or financial advisor because you know, this can cost the business nothing to be able to do it because there's tax break in there in some way. So it's definitely if you're in a position and you want to retain, I think it was I I think we were where we were wanted to be in the business. Um, and I was getting not twitchy, but I was kind of like, oh, still got I still want to do more, still want to do more. And I think you know, my boss at the time was thinking, oh, she better not bug her off. Um so you know, that was a really, really lovely um thing to do, and it kind of even you know solidified our relationship even more. Um and then when I started to do my consultancy, he was more excited than me and was just totally backing me up, and actually has got behind my consultancy now, and we go into practices and we review associate productivity, viability. Um, and that's that's what happens when we show goodwill to each other in a in a practice um between owner and practice manager. It like you said, you said before, sometimes things happen, and then it's you know, if you get a gap in your day when it's been really busy, it's an opportunity then for something else wonderful to get into that space. Or you can just have a coffee or nip the leg, but hopefully something wonderful happens instead. So I would speak to accountants, I would look at is your relationship where you want it to be? Is it the cherry or are you using it as the carrot? That's definitely a starting place.

Dr James: 25:00

And just one more teeny question on that before we move on. Do you believe in gifting the equity or having them buy in?

Speaker 1: 25:08

And then call them. Sorry, just let me.

Dr James: 25:10

Oops, it's all right.

Speaker 1: 25:13

It's probably my accountant. Um yeah, I mean it's something to be discussed for me, obviously, gifting, um, especially when it's not going to cost, if it's not going to cost the practice in the business anything. Um it's not for everyone. It's definitely not for everyone. You know, the number of owners that I have coming to me where they've got a practice manager that they don't feel is fulfilling that role, um, or doing the business isn't as great as they would like it to be. You know, one, I would say, right, well, you know, we need to look at the systems and the dynamics and the leadership and the diaries and everything else, all them plates again. Um but I would say quite a lot of the time owners are more disgruntled or a bit dissatisfied with their practice managers, which isn't always the practice manager's fault, but needs to try it should be addressed. And yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a move that's not for everybody, but it's definitely something that should be explored. And yeah.

Dr James: 26:23

You know, let's dissect that. Let's dissect that for two seconds. What do you what do you think makes a good practice manager? And is a practice manager who's good in one practice necessarily good in all practices because there might be different dynamics between the principal and the PM?

Speaker 1: 26:40

Yeah, and and that is it's it is quite a difficult question because you've got practice managers who are more on the day-to-day, the holidays, the rotors, you know, the patients that come in and initially moan, dealing with that, doing a stock, the variations from practice managers through to people that are actually running the business, strategizing, looking at the finances, having the conversations with the accountants, you're talking about someone that's maybe on you know, £15, £16 an hour to someone that's on £40 to £45, £50 an hour. So depending what practices want. One thing that one thing that I have had said many, many times, which is is lovely, is when I've started working with practices and I've plugged those little holes that have been leaking. Like you say before, sometimes it looks simple to us, but it's not sometimes. Once you start plugging those holes, and you know, I know I've reduced white space by 5% in the diary and I've adjusted the fees, and suddenly they've got an extra 120 grand a year profit from just tiny things. They say to me, Why couldn't I find you 10 years ago? And it's like, well, maybe I wouldn't have been the same person 10 years ago, maybe I wouldn't be able to do that 10 years ago. Um but yeah, it's every practice manager needs to evolve with the practice, but the practice needs to set out where it is and where it wants to be, and look if they've got that right practice manager and what they're gonna give. If you know, if you're gonna give a practice manager 15, 16 pounds an hour, you're you're gonna get a practice manager that's gonna, you know, just maintain. Whereas if you want to invest in that practice manager or get a practice manager that is more business development, you're investing. It is an investment, and you will get a return on it.

Dr James: 28:44

100%, 100%. No, I like that a lot. And I was curious as well, how important do you reckon it is to know your numbers as a pra as a practice owner?

Speaker 1: 28:54

Just why wouldn't you? I know they don't, I know there's a lot that don't.

Dr James: 28:58

They struggle with that, don't they?

Speaker 1: 29:00

Massively, and I just I I worry because you know it's it's hard to make sure things are okay. Um, you know, and this isn't about everyone needing to know, you know, what your bottom line is, you know, at the end of the year, kind of thing, how much have you earned as a dentist? And it's it's about understanding enough about the finances to know that what white space costs or what staffing, what the benchmarks are, can we afford another team member? If we have another team member, what will that mean for the business? What would the growth be and the return and stuff like? So for me, some some practices, some practice managers know a lot. Um some have got absolutely no idea because it's never been shared with them. Um and again, I just feel like sometimes owners they get so bogged down with the cost of things, they don't realise they're missing an opportunity of the growth, you know. Um, for example, you know, I might go and say, a practice manager say, Oh, Lisa, I really want you to come in and do some training. Our front of house, we're not converting these inquiries. And I I know the results I can get from training front of house. So I know that potentially you'll go from maybe seeing five, ten, fifteen new patients a month to actually booking in 30, 40, 50 from changing the way front of house have them conversations. And I'll say, okay, you know, okay, so you know, if it's quite local to me, you know, um I'm looking at between three and five hundred pounds for you know me to come in for three hours. Oh, I don't think they'll pay that. And I'm like, okay, and I know I I know what that looks like on their profit and what their diaries will look like from me doing that, but they wouldn't pay a few hundred quid. And I'm just I don't know.

Dr James: 31:03

It's it comes back to what I was saying earlier. It's it's this is the problem with um uh in a way, this is kind of the problem with people who run businesses, they don't always have that business mind where they're kind of too attached to cash in a way, you know what I mean? And it's the very fact that they're clinging on to it is also the reason why they don't have enough of it as well, because they're not willing to part with it to invest in stuff that is important. I think it's that, and then tangential to that, not everyone realizes how important communication is uh with regards to as a lever to pull in terms of profitability for your dental practice. It is massive, it is probably the biggest thing, one of the biggest things anyway.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Yeah, the most important thing in your toolkit, I would say.

Dr James: 31:47

There we go, there we go. It's it's it's but this is the thing, it's because it's one of those things, it almost sounds like kind I I definitely sat in that camp once, right? I was like, I don't need a communication course, and I remember uh the job that I was in, or not even like as a course, I don't need any coaching on communication if you want to call it that, right? And I remember the job that I was in, it was NHS, and I was like, it just so happens to be in this practice that 99% of my patients want NHS, right? And now I look back on it and I was like, no, that was actually a direct result of my communication. It always is to that level. Maybe you know, yes, okay, you might work high needs and have a lot of NHS patients, but when you're 99% NHS, right, it's very rare that there's not a large component of that is not is is is based. A large component of the reason why that happens is based on how you're explaining things to patients. And if you nail that, all of a sudden your private goes up, which you're not doing from the point of view that you're trying to get more money out of people. Yes, that does happen, but it just so happens that a lot of the time the private option is the better treatment option anyway, and by communicating well, you're enabling them to make a better choice for themselves.

Speaker 1: 32:59

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Um and people do do forget this, they think it's they think it's too fluffy, and patients don't want you to, you know, sell to them. And for me, it goes back to if we communicate well, we're allowing people to make their own decisions about things. Um even from complaint handling, you know, I had someone screaming the other day because you know, she wasn't happy and her her perception was that she'd not had a good job made of something. Um and I de-escalated it within 10 seconds. Yes, the complaint was still there, but I actually stopped it from being hysterical, and that was within 10 seconds. But it goes from you know, the patient inquiries are you taking on NHS patients? You know, we're healthcare and people are so obsessed with the money, oh, are they gonna pay private? Oh, they're not gonna want private because they're NHS, therefore they've got no money. And it's like we just strip back and actually go, do you know what? Instead of giving them a load of blurb, actually just have a conversation with them. You know, and the way I do it with the practices that I trade, I have to say to quite a few, you know, people go, Oh no, no, they won't like that, patients won't like that, they're not bothered, they won't do, they won't pay private. And I go, just humour me and say this one sentence and see how that conversation changes. And they go, right, and this they're quite defensive sometimes because one, they perhaps don't know how to do it and they don't understand why we're doing it. Um, and I get them to change just a little bit of language and the words, you know, no, we're we're not NHS, we're private, we can see you're private. Well, what we're saying to that patient is we are stopping you from getting your entitled NHS care because we want to charge you more for it, you know. And this is all about um the language and what triggers people. Patients come quite often with um, especially the NHS patients, they come to us quite often with the concept the conception that we're gonna be not giving them what they want, right? So they're guarded, they think we're guarded and we're preventing things. So already you've got that attitude of and not a very you know, positive conversation. So actually, if you've got a team member, a front house team member who can break that down within the first 10 seconds, yeah, you're not going to convert every single appointment, but you will convert a lot more patients than you perhaps were if you were just having the normal transactional type of conversation where you're offering people an appointment and they go, Oh no, I'll keep ringing round. And you know, it's it's it's lovely when you see the light bulb moment with with front of house. And I love the AI at the moment. I'm really, really enjoying the AI because what we're doing now is, and I do put my money where my mouth is, I do pick the phone up and make sure I can do it as well. Is we're critiquing ourselves. Is there anything I could have done different with that call? AI yourself and work out what the sentiment of that call was. Were you did you have good listening skills? Were you friendly? Were you helpful? All the fluffy bits that AI can tell us about our tone and things like that. Um, and we're critiquing ourselves, so even those doing it really well can take it another step further. And that is part of just enhancing the communication for me.

Dr James: 37:01

Boom, there we go. Lisa, thanks so much for your time on the podcast today. If anybody wants to reach out to you based on anything that you said today, how are they best off finding you?

Speaker 1: 37:09

Um you can look up my website, um Practice Management Matters. Um, you can catch me um at Lisa@ practice management matters.co.uk. I'm just getting my dates in for all most of the dental shows next year, most of the big events where I will be part of the practice managers um gang. So if you're going to any of the big shows, I'll be speaking and we've got a stand, come and talk to me. Um if anyone can't find me, I'm sure you will happily pass my number on.